6/3/14---Godfrey de Lucy ties to Richard le Bel
(see 5/13/14--A CONTRACT BETWEEN Bishop GODFREY de LUCY (1189-1204) AND RICHARD le BEL)
Bishop Godfrey de Lucy had a land swap transaction with Richard le Bel between 1189-1204.
Who was Godfrey de Lucy?
Bishop of Winchester Godfrey de Lucy (1124-1204) was the son of Richard de Lucy (1089-1179) who was Chief Justiciar of England jointly with Robert de Beaumont (1104-1168), Earl of Leicester. dna#17,p.59
Possible connection Godfrey de Lucy to Richard Le
Robert Beaumont's mother Elizabeth of Vermandois (1058-1148) first married Beaumont's father (1st Earl of Leicester), next she married William de Warenne (2nd Earl of Surrey).
Elizabeth of Vermandois offspring included:
1)- her son Robert Beaumont was joint Justiciar of England with Richard de Lucy
2)- her granddaughter Hawise de Beaumont married William Fitz Robert who owned Mapledurham where le Bels lived.
3)- her great granddaughter Isabel married Prince John 1189-1199. They divorced when John became King in 1199, John ended up with her lands which included Mapledurham (where le Bels lived).
4)- her grandson Richard de Clare (1130-1176), 2nd earl of Pembroke (called "Strongbow") invaded Ireland with Richard de Tuit (Tuite's ancestors later moved to St Croix, where ancestor George Beale managed one of their plantations).
5)- her granddaughter Isabel de Warenne (1130-1203) married Hamelin le Bel (1129-1202). Their possible son was Richard le Bel (who did the land swap with Godfrey le Bel).
6)- her son was Ralph de Warenne. Was Ralph the great uncle of Richard le Bel mentioned by Godfrey in the land swap?
7)- her great great grandson John de Warenne (1231-1304) married Alice Lusignan (1224-1256), sister of Bishop of Winchester Aymer Lusignan (1222-1260), who James le Bel worked with (see data added 12/17/13).
QUESTIONS FOR UK RESEARCHER:
See my recent post (5/13/14--a contract between bishop Godfrey de Lucy and
Richard le Bel):
During the time of 1189-1204, Bishop Godfrey de Lucy makes a contract with "Richard le Bel, great nephew of Ralph of Fermesham" (Frensham, Surrey). My recent translation: "Richard's father's uncle Ralph of Fermesham"
I believe Richard le Bel's father was Hamelin de Warenne
1129-1202, Richard's grandfather was William de Warrene 1119-1148, Richard's
grandfather's brother (great uncle of Richard) was Ralph de Warenne.
Here is some data on William de Warenne 1119-1148 and his brother Ralph:
"Between 1130 and 1138 Warenne appeared with his brother Ralph as co-grantor or witness in several of their father's charters, but his first known independent action was one which presaged a life of military misfortune. He was among those hot-headed youths (as Orderic Vitalis called them) who deserted King Stephen during his unsuccessful attempt to take Normandy in 1137. Probably in 1138 Warenne's father died, and he succeeded as earl of Surrey, though he consistently styled himself as Earl Warenne." dna#14,PD tab,p.116
PLEASE LOOK IN FRENSHAM SURREY RECORDS 1120-1170 AND SEE IF YOU CAN FIND A RALPH OF FERMESHAM ? WAS HE ALSO RALPH DE WARENNE ?
WERE FATHER'S 1130-1138 CHARTERS (signed by Ralph and brother William de Warenne) IN SURREY ? IN FERMESHAM ?
Possible source of de Warenne charters: W. Farrer and others, eds. of EARLY YORKSHIRE CHARTERS, 12 vols.(1914-65), vol 8
IF WE CAN FIND RALPH OF FERMESHAM IS ALSO RALPH DE WARENNE, THIS THEN SUPPORTS
THE SUPPOSITION THAT RICHARD LE BEL IS THE SON OF HAMELIN LE BEL (WHO BECAME
HAMELIN DE WARENNE).